Having made a video about untargetability in League of Legends 2 months ago, I decided to make another one where we talk about another controversial mechanic: Stealth!
~Timestamps~
(0:00) – Introduction
(5:47) – Part One: Why Stealth is Good?
(9:25) – Part Two: Why Stealth is Bad?
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#LoL #Stealth #Discussion
Source
As with most controversial mechanics, I've always believed that introducing counterplay is way more interesting that just removing them
im completely fine with camoflague, get a control ward
"it's not a good choice to give assassins a tryndamere ult"
laughs in ultimate spellbook
I main kha, shaco and talon so I guess I'm not allowed to talk here
um. i hate to inform you, but champions with stealth dont have stealth as their only defensive tool. Just bout every stealth champion is paired with a dash/blink of some kind, which imo is the second best defensive tool in the game.
but lets look at examples and exclude extra mobility.
kai'sa gets a big ass shield
evelyn heals for a MASSIVE chunk of her hp when she re stealths.
Rengar gets a massive heal on his w
Kha has a heal on his w
pyke regenerates more damage than he takes when he goes into stealth.
akali has slows on slows on ms steroids.
neeko gets a big ol shield on her ult
qiyana has essentially on demand hard cc to get out
senna heals and has easy to land hard cc
wu kong gets free resistances and has a massive aoe knock up that can get him out of any situation.
and viego heals off every kill he get essentially.
So champions with stealth not having other defensive tools is just incorrect.
Answer: no
video about why shaco should be removed
I do belive that camouflage is absolutely not a problem, and far away from that actually. It makes a champ a threat but as soon as they pop out of stealth well, you see em and they cant just pop out of existance. In the other hand true invisibility… I think it's too powerfull. I'll take Akali as an exemple : While in her smoke bomb, she's basicly able to poke you down, get her cooldown back to throw a big burst of damages right in you're face, get out, and basicly being impossible to kill or at least… Very hard.
But it surely make sense to have invisibility in assassins, because it suit em well, and if fort exemple Cho'gath could turn invisible, well it'll sure be annoying but nothing more, and it'll be just… Strange, not that usefull and not suited for that big boy.
I do think the solution might be to ad an item / rune / summoner spell / ect… That allow to see the invisible and to target it, at least for one champ for a short period of time. The correct way to deal with that problem rather introducing counterplay than purely deleting it. Because it's the fact that you cant or that is really difficult to counterplay an Akali in her smoke or a Vayne using her ultimate that make players mad.
If you give the tools to counterplay / play around, no one will ever be able to cry about it if you can deal with it just by buying an item or taking a summoner spell.
A reworked stealth could be an option, and it could work with the idea of "someone is looking at me"
Its the idea of the stealthed champion that walks close to you that might "highten" your sences, the idea of "i realize someone is looking at me, but i cant see that person, so i am on the look out for it"
It might be a buff in visibility or an icon that becomes visible when the champ is really close to you
As someone who played against an invisible Singed thanks to having Kha'zix ult in unlimited Spellbook i can confirm that you should fear invisible tanks
I don't mind Camouflage, but combat stealth is just way too unfun.
I really would like to see a couple tanks or control mages with stealth, though. That'd be hilarious. Set up the battlefield and start the teamfights, not to delete anyone yourself, but to set up your team for deleting them due to CC and zone control. A lot less toxic than solo instakills and more big-brained.
I think that kind of off handed comparison of putting stealth on other champions was kinda short sighted lmao. Its still a valid argument that stealth can be mind numbingly annoying but its on champions that can usually only do damage and as stated, thats their primary form of defense and advantage. *if ornn fucking had stealth this game would have kicked the bucket a long time ago lmao*. Annoying would not reach the lips of most league players if tanks and enchanters had stealth, specifically the ones stated, it would be much worse lol. How are you supposed to kill a key support when you dive their team and they go *invisible*? Its as easy as say, if riot released items for every role that just gave them a short burst of stealth. Supports? untouchable, tanks? ganking every lane with their crazy cc from stealth lol. An enchanter/supports main weakness is being dived and or focused, you try that and they just disappear, suddenly every support basically becomes yuumi and you cant shut them down as an all in diving champion that will probably die without getting a good exchange for said dive lol. Ofc it wouldnt be so cut and dry but something as simple as that would rock the boat way more than champions who were born with stealth in mind.
As long as the champions success is pivotal with the use of their stealth mechanic or its veritably minor in terms of power overall its not very game breaking, and much better than just slapping stealth on pre-existing champions… I'm lookin at you dusk blade （¬＿¬)
You overlooked what I consider to be the most important point. Even if invisibility is balanced at higher skill levels, it is horribly unbalanced in low silver and below. The invisible player has to press their ability key and walk into any lane the opponents push up. The opponent has to have the foresight to get the wave state under their own tower, ward effectively, use oracle lens and such. The counter play requires way more mastery of game mechanics and awareness than the invisibility does!
i think camuflage is okay and fine i think the true stealth is an unhealthy mechanic
Khazix is such a stupid champ he goes in one shots your Squishies and Invis jumps out literally so stupid
Who’s here now that akshan is out with indefinite stealth😂
Evelynn, frustrating to play against, ward a spot and she'll come at you from four different angles or even from the middle of the lane with 2 point and click maxHP%, 2s CC and resistance reduction skills
Pyke, not really stealth per say, just some MS and camouflage, really easy to deal with tbh, and his 1v1 is shit compared to other stealthers
Talon, just R, easily manageable, the only hard thing to deal with is his E
Shaco, wtf, a dash with invis, how was this 5s long in previous patches? Can even place W while invisible
Neeko, is that even a stealth? I give it the LB treatment, not really hard to wrap your head around
Red trinket doesn't let me target enemies in stealth even though I can clearly see them
And then there is Aurelion Sol, the champ that literally can't be Stealthed
but input lag, latency, and reaction speed aside. having the experience to predict their moves and use good guess work to prepare your mouse and screen to their skills is what negates a lot of latency issues. simply by just hitting the spot they know is the next location.
We hate stealth champs that have zero counter play. It's utterly demoralizing to get one shot by Akali. Noc has has a global shroud that can be argued is stealth. Why doesn't Quinn have stealth when she is by definition the ONLY scout {useless} champ if she doesnt dominate from the beginning of the game. Temo has a form of stealth and his lore says he's a scout when we all know he's utter cancer. One shot champs shouldn't be given stealth period…. although I have no issues with Evelyn because one of her skills warns players she's about to pounce. I could agree to stealth champs if there was a way to counter them without having to waste an item slot just to even stand a chance of winning lane.
Talon has infinite escape + stealth, Kha Zix has his E to escape + stealth, le blanc can escape, Akali can dash with ult and escape with W, Akshan can just E away. Yep, all super vulnerable without stealth
honestly, I think all but 1 stealth in the game is fine. every champ has reasons that make me say "they are fine to have stealth in the way they have it"… and then we have shaco… an on-demand, 10s cooldown blink followed by 3.5s of invisibility… that's too much man.
I wish shaco had ms on his q 😭
Stealth is a feast or famine mechanic.
It puts players ahead at a greater advantage, while not helping the player behind achieve anything because he's going to be turned onto.
Stealth in aram sucks. Khazix with a dusk blade is cancer.
I think shaco's stealth is easily the worst. It would be fine if it was only a stealth but its also a blink
I don't have an issue with stealth itself, but if I could choose one champion to remove from the game, it would be Shaco, and if that meant removing stealth, that'd be ok by me. I don't like playing as Shaco, nor against him, and I don't like having one on my team, either.
"iN fIrSt PeRsOn ShOoTeRs ThErE iS nO pOiNt & cLiCk…"
Soldier 76: I've got you in my sights
9:37
"vision prevents you from seeing"
~Some monk named lee sin
the problem with your arguments is that you are talking about theory, not practice
I just want my Lux invisibility W back
I cannot stand stealth in its current state.
Stealth was fine when pink wards countered it. Now I just have to hope the hyper mobile burst assassin isn't looking at me when I see them for half a second running through my jungle. Honestly Riot's campaign against vision over the last 7 or 8 years has just been painful, and the nowhere is that more evident in an item giving every ad assassin a stealth reset. Hell, someone on the design team said "lets grant akali stealth from towers" and no one thought to say "No"
And don't get me started how Asscan is just 100% better than Twitch as far as being an ambush assassin despite that not even being the focus of his kit. He just pops out of nowhere from behind because why not, there's walls everywhere and he can jump to all of them. They could at least make him choose one wall, maybe even put it on a Talon style cooldown, just to make his choices matter.
Duskblade in its current state just needs to be removed. Full stop.
I can continue, but a months old youtube video comment probably not the place.
Imo, remove most invis, even as an eve main i think total invisibility is unfair. i don't think any invisibility should last longer than 1 second, and some stealth abilities just need to be outright removed, stealth is just way too frequent as a mechanic, and i think if a champ is able to go camo, it should define their playstyle and be the most essential part of their kit.
I just want more counterplay with items like there is with healing/lifesteal in the form of grievous wounds
100% should be removed Absolutely hate how cheap it feels to play against them.
Oh whats that the kha'six who jumped you played poorly and is nearly dead? Aaaaand hes gone.
you talk about this in the single kinda way about the champs themselves not so much where they are in the team; eve is super cool and can do alot but if her team is unwilling or unable to help her / work with her with her taunt she ends up being kinda useless or under fed. Stealth really demands you work with other ppl alot more at the start of the game so later you can bother the ap nukes or adcs or whatever Heck even then if a shaco poofs behind xyz and fears every one with his jib and heehoos away with another blink and his clone it doesnt mean anything nor does it do anything but all that again with team mates who follow up its easy day win.
That said most stealth is semi pointless or just for laughs as every new champ has 20 aoe cc's ,a dash and 3 shields and a insta kill skill. doing it right when fighting ppl who understand how to handle it takes alot.
Does League not have the equivalent of sentry wards/dust of appearance like Dota 2. Just introduce detection mechanisms that everyone can buy from the shop what's the problem guys?
Shaco q
Yes it should
Bit late but I feel camo is much more frustrating to deal with. Having a champion suddenly appear on you without you having any idea is completely unfun especially if they came from an area that you had warded. Invis is only temporary and unless it's on shaco/Akali it doesn't last long enough to be really annoying
Imagine a stealth Malphite ult
I would take untargetability over this shit any day. It has very obvious counterplay as you most often know where the enemy will reappear or stop being untargetable so you can either set up a combo or CC them. With invisibility you have no idea when or where they'll appear like 99% of the time. Since the only thing that can actually hit them are AOE attacks which probably won't deal that much damage it makes the campion untargetable but also able to move. You're just confined to waiting for them to decide to fight you, usually when they have all they're cooldowns back and have already lined up a skillshot to begin their combo. It's one of the few mechanics that actually frustrate me in this game
I’m a Trynda main and whenever I see an enemy Khazix in ranked I want to break my monitor. There is literally nothing more frustrating than being destroyed via a mechanic, to which you have literally zero counterplay. Imagine your a fed trynda vs a fed kha. If you don’t win the game personally, you won’t win at all. But then again, how do you prevent the kha from popping your entire team, if whenever you see him, he jumps out from a bush, bursts you to the point of having to ult, then runs away with an utterly ridiculous 6 seconds invisibility with extra move speed (yes, that is LONGER than Trynda ulti), after which he jumps back in with his refreshed cool downs and q’s you for the remainder of your hp. When exactly do you have any say in how this fight goes? You are oneshot by someone you can’t hit back. Your defensive tool (ulti) seems inadequate in comparison to his multitool ulti, which is both his defense, offense and repositioning utility. You can use oracle lens, but unless you oneshot the guy with an E you can’t harm him in any way
before I watch the video, I will answer the title question: yes
Not true, my team will still get ganked. They don't watch the map