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For today’s video I wanted to discuss summons in League of Legends, pets or minions created by champions to assist them in battle, and why they can never be good (the summon, not the champion).
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#LoL #Summons #Pets
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dont forget the utility pet, kalister's vision ghost and aphelios' gun turret
Riot caould make a champion, who has summon on ult and the recast of the ult would be swapping their basic abilities to the summons abilities. The basic abilities of both the champion and summon would be weak alone, but good together. That's just my idea of how to make a summon with active abilities, I dunno if it wozld be balanced or had the same problem as shapeshifters.
I knoe the ost is from gen 5 bu which route or town is it? Comments help XD
Never forget pokemon master mordekaizer
You have good taste in music my friend
I think a supportive summon character that would place something on you like Oriannas ball would be really interesting, or something like the maiden but it just buffs def stats and gives shields when you press E or something. I think it would be really interesting
I think if they make you champion that their ult is a puppet but you can only put one point in it and the abilities will work together and if your puppet isn’t summoned when you have less damage and be more vulnerable
you can actually attack move with daisy and its pretty op when you can do it
shame that there aren't 5 of the big ones
it would be a fun troll team
Ah, a video with a random Undertale music in the background.
It fills me with nostalgia
Maybe something when you use your ult your abilities cast from your summon and are empowered. For example when Annie ults her w now casts from timbers and has a small dot burn and her q timbers throws a larger fireball and has a small knock back like old volibears e
Maybe another example is a character or champion that can be a mix of both copies AND puppet master where the main idea of a champion is that they make copies of themselves but the player can switch to and from each individual copy at any time. Which ever copys that are NOT currently occupied by the player essentially became minion pets like yorwick gouls. Their w can be how the switch their Q can be a basic ranged and or mele attack, E is some kind of range utility or slow, and their R can be thier ability to add another clone to their growing hoard overtime. With each new clone made, making all the individual clones individual power become weaker. With the main idea of the champ just being gorilla warfare, overwhelming your opponent with up to maybe 5-10 clones at a time?
You could easily give summon abilities because they already have that in the game with Zed. Just have the summon mirror the ability the player cast or cast their own spell when the player uses an ability. It would obviously be a very mechanically intense, but Riot does like to make complicated champions lol.
uhhhh i think you made a mistake on the smash analogy. Pretty sure ice climbers fit the analogy perfectly. Nana is literally a puppet character, with her own ai and everything. You can control most of her as well but she does have her own ai things she does for example when she's hit off stage. Though she kinda works more like just a second character when you take desyncs into account and such but yeah.
I hate that damn madien, SOOOOO MUCH
They could add the functionality of Karma and Heimendinger with empowered abilities. If Tibers is on the field press r then w to have Tibers use flame breath in the chosen direction. Obviously it would have to be balanced since you could do this with q aswell and have double the damage (once with Tibers and after with Annie). This could be done using a weaker version of the ability on Tibers or having a cooldown no matter who uses it.
Maybe you can give "spells" to the summons if you think outside the box.
Let's take Yorick's maiden for example, and let's give her a magic damage aeo around the target she's attacking.
There is no need to put it on a key, nor to let maiden's AI ( That is sometimes terrible ) use it when she want to. Let's just say, for instance, that every time Yorick use, let's say, his W, the maiden use her spell
It could, in my opinion, be a really interesting champion design ! A champ that has a controlable pet following him around, and whenever the champ use a spell the pet do his spell. That could be really good in my opinion !
I feel like making summons interesting is simple enough, if the engine can support it. Click R to use the champion's summon ultimate. Whenever you hold R while the summon is active, you gain access to a Q/W/E that act as the summoned unit's abilities. Give the summon's abilities a bit of delay / channel time, and chain them together with your champion's abilities for some mechanically interesting executions. Granted, it makes for a champ with a high skill floor and massive skill ceiling, but I wager people want that in a summon champ by now. In terms of movement, alt-click can still work.
Summons could have abilities. You can make it so that the summon moves with the left click (the one to cast abilities) while you can make it so that the key (usually r) that summons the summon can rotate between abilities by holding the key(what aphelios should have for his weapons instead of the current system of bullets).
Another way could be the way karma works and reworked leblanc used to work. You basically recast the summon ability to change the other abilities into the summon's abilities.
To me the best well designed example of a duo champion, the hero and it's pet, is Rexxar from Heroes of the Storm.
2 of his 4 abilities consists of interacting with his bear, Misha, one is a stun from where she is standing and the other is a heal. If the bear dies, the other team is credited with a 0,5 kill and you are left with half your kit paralyzed until she's back.
The thing that makes this possible is a dedicated "passive" key, D, which in his kit allow you to command, attack and move, and also the overall game design, where just the presence of a hero (or the bear) is enough to warrant some objectives.
I can say it's a pretty cool experience and quite a decent tank
Summoner champions is a relic from Dota. In Dota you can manually control any unit you control. Some of the highest skill ceiling heroes in Dota are exactly ones with summons: Visage, Lone Druid, Lycanthrope, Chen, the illusion heroes like Terrorblade and Phantom Lancer. There are many more, but I can't remember from the top of my head.
The ability to control your units like an RTS game and individually select units to control makes summoners possible. But given that Riot made the game from Dota over a decade ago and never implemented micro control of multiple units I really doubt they'd do that for a new summoner champion.
Fun fact: one of the heroes from Dota I mentioned is even one of the best carries in the game, Lone Druid, because he summons a permanent Bear, and the Bear has his own inventory, so basically you do play two champions, you get to build upwards of 12 items on Lone Druid, which makes him a late game absolute monster since very few heroes can outscale him.
give the summons 3 abilities that bind to q,w, and e so when you use an ability then the summon also does an ability might be a balance nightmare but theres probably a way to make it work
Summons offer an interesting dynamic and it's a shame Riot hasn't implemented one, I do believe it's possible since other MOBA´S have functional summons based characters like Rexxar in Heroes of the Storm, who has to control his bear Misha, since she is the bulk of his DPS while his own abilities offer utility (slows, reveals, vision). Maybe we can see a similar approach to league as well
I had a champion design Ideo i wanted to share: Basicly it's a mage that has a magical beast with him or her. The beast always sticks to the mage but when the mage cast a spell the beast detach and "is" the spell. Let's say you have a classical projectile, well it will now be a spell with a hitbox, meaning you can stun the spell or slow it. Of course so you don't get fcked up the beast movement speed could scale with ap, and it's tenacity too in some way.
That's the base idea i had and for the Ult I'm not really sure, we could just freely move the beast arround with insane stat boost and use it as a casting focus, so spells don't come from us but from the beast instead. Tell me what y'all think of this i didn't think it through a lot tho x)
I mean you could effectively make a scale heavy summoner, early power budget is practically non-existant but in exchange when they have their ult creature summoned everything is empowered. So let's use Annie as an example and base for this, remove the summon damage on ult and make it more utility but reduce its cooldown, her other abilities can be the same but with higher cooldowns which will force her into a poke role. Then when tibbers is summoned you can afford more power to tibbers, give him a command ability like you used as an example and give bonus affects to the other abilities, her shield becomes slightly stronger and AOE to her allies and summon, he cone has higher range and can leave a burn area, her fireball can be a guaranteed stun with longer range. Can make it more reliant on the summon by adding a target affect to her new fireball in that it creates an auto target affect for tibbers (eg you stun then he'll walk over and flip them), her cone can be projected from you and tibbers and those caught by both can take bonus damage and be stunned. This way you are forced to play as a summoner and effectively manage your summon using click move and your own empowered abilities, the power budget is heavily weighted towards the late game when you can max out cdr and have the summon up permanently and up until that point you're easy to bully. Creates high skill cap gameplay but effectively positioning to characters and also high utility and damage based on empowered ability cycling and comboing. Easy to understand and learn but difficult to master, and youre still a champion without the summon albeit a weak one
5:55 something seems wrong ? according to the screen tibbers has better stats but you say daisy is the stronger one ?
What about Viktor's Ult?
Aren't summoners basically controllers like orianna and azir
Oh he says it in the video
I think another potential way to handle summons is kinda operating like gnar or shyvana, but through a summon. A character having their normal abilities, but when they have their summon, those abilities change in nature and are cast through the summon. Can make a summon more than just a beatstick that you have more agency over.
Does someone know what the music at the start is?
Song name?
When I first started playing I played Illaoi, Yorick, Zyra, and Heimerdinger. I love it. The enemy is forced to walk into your house of horrors.
I think the way to go about it is basically making a new champion, not adjusting existing ones to a more complex pet. I thought your firebreath in a cone example for Tibbers was interesting. Let's be real, Riot is very ambitious with champion design and the get bolder every year. I don't think what I'm about to propose is out of the scope of possibility to be honest.
I think you can definitely have a champion with enough power budget on basic abilities, and also have a complex ultimate pet with more abilities. What I would do is make the abilities predetermined by a scenario, so you always know what's going to happen. Make it predictable for the opponent to know what happens, so that the abilities are telegraphed and weaker as a result, sort of like a Dark Souls boss. Let's say the pet has 3 abilities: one is a knockback that the pet activates only when it's close to the summoner and the enemy is also in melee range of them. Second ability could be the fire cone, but the pet roots itself and shoots only in one direction, starting where the enemy is. This activates if the enemy champion is mid range, about the range of a marksman like Kai'sa. Third ability could be a skill shot that only activates when the enemy is running away from the summoner, goes through minions, and if it hits it marks the enemy making it so the summoner's abilities get extra range against that one fleeing enemy.
This is just an example, but I think you can definitely make a complex pet in league, and without much sacrifice in power budget too. It's all in how you execute the abilities, not how much budget is in them. For example Sett's W would be really weak on its own if he couldn't set it up with his E or his R slow. As long as you make the pet's abilities both telegraphed/predetermined and give the opponent counterplay to them, such as making them skillshots or rooting the pet while it shoots fire, then it's fine without much compromise for the summoner champion's power budget. It also is easier to bugfix since the pet is more predictable, so you know what it should be doing in which scenario, so you can always pinpoint an issue and fix any bug.
I feel like viktors ultimate almost makes him a summoner
I think it wouldve been interesting if you wouldve talked about heroes of the storm. The last time I played it (which has been a few years to be fair so that might've changed) there was a champion with a bear as a permanent pet. Would be interested what you think of that since its the same genre as league.
As an Illaoi player, her main issue is … She can't even control when her summons appear, and barely where they appear. And because of that, she needs to stay 15s (@lvl18, 40@lvl1) in an area to have 2 tentacles available.
And because these tentacles have only 2hp, there is no way they survive more than 3s if any ranged enemy is in the area.
So she has to either hit a E, or flash in & R in a teamfight.
But then, you can negate most of her damage by just 2s of walking away from the area.
She's too easy to counter.
Zyra has similar issues.
And when it comes to "ultimate summons"… well you could make it so the character actually controls them. We have shift+R to move a few of them, why not shift+Q, shift+W, shift+E to use spells ? Maybe make it a rule that they only have 1 active. How is that an issue ?
Items have actives nowadays, one more spell isn't really an issue.
Oh boy, you mentioning it isn't feasible will likely prompt Rito to make a summoner with active effects next year.
Probably a mix of Orianna, Annie, and Kled with shared HP and AOE.
I dont think you need a new hotkey for an ability for summoners. Two ideas on this:
1: very simply make the r use the ability if the pet is placed
2: have a special item that has an ability (could be something like goredrinker or just move speed and dmg, but nothing that would have to be aimed or even point and click like everfrost) that, if you have a pet placed, both you can the pet use it, or just the pet. It might be a useless item for anyone but summoners, but it could give them some extra ability without adding a hotkey, which would be really anoying I think since we are all used to the same set of hotkeys
I have an idea that would be intresting at least that is similar to the idea you gave. Have a summon with the whole power budget almost as the R and when you summon them your 3 abilities turn into abilitys for the summon.
I created a whole character for league who's name is Pupper Master, and one of his ability would be the power to swap his conciousness to his puppet ( controlling her, and leaving his actual body as an empty vessel ).
I think thats one way to make summons work ^^
vars you should really look at dota 2 if you want to see how summoning could be done, a lot of their heros with summons are really cool and the way you control them is really intuitive
11:03 soooo if League is "too complex" than how in the world doe the Dota 2 rocket science their micro-heavy units that are either heavily reliant or purely based around utilizing their summoned units? Beastmaster – Lone Druid – Meepo – Lycan – Broodmother – Chen – Nature's Prophet just to name a few, and many of these summons have their own active abilities and moves to utilize – how are these characters supposed to be playable in Dota 2 if League is "too complex" to handle a single summoned unit for only a handful of champions? – IMO it's more that League still lacks the technology to handle summoned units, rather than the game being too complex to handle summoned units and/or summoned units being added mess on top of already allegedly complex game
I believe Illaoi's tentacles would actually be good, if she had someway to summon it. The best way to add that imo is just make it so level 5 Q and E would spawn tentacles, Q spawning a tentacle at the base of where she hit the ground and E spawning one once the decoy she spawns is killed / the target runs out of range.
I've been begging for a proper puppeteer champion. One whose "power budget" is placed entirely on an external entity and whose kit is designed to keep the "puppet master" at a far while letting the puppet do all the fighting. Designing a "ranged juggernaut" puppeteer champ wouldn't be very difficult. They already have Azir, Zed, and Orianna mechanics to build off of. I was really hoping Vex would puppet her Shadow before she came out, but oh well. Maybe they'll be brave enough to do something like it later