Watchers Post: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/development-update-the-road-to-shadowlands/638371
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Qualified Bench Warmer 😀 😀 😀
When I saw they are considering bringing back pvp stats or pvp set bonuses I couldn't be happier, that being said let's see what they end up doing. I would sacrifice a lot to be able to have an alt just for pvp, gear it via pvp, and be able to compete on it. It would actually reduce the whole Covenant/Soulbind anxiety to a complete minimum, I'd just pick what I consider the best for my class/spec in pvp and not have to try to find a middle ground and be shit, in most cases at least 1 or even more than one aspect of the game like M+, raid, Arena etc.
Yeah i raided mythic for two xpacs now, and yeah this whole covenant thing has me basically like
"i enjoy WoW first, the competitive raiding second"
so I'm picking the covenant that i find most attractive, and frankly fuck the power levels….
im probably not mythic raiding this time around :/
BTW you do need an active wow account for PTR, i tried recently.
The argument about adding "identity" I think comes from a large number of players who would like more RPG elements in the game. Currently classes feel like empty husks that you simply slot whatever talents are the mathematical best for the current content type. There is something cool about having some firm distinction between making choices about your character that aren't simply a platform you change out on the fly to optimize perfectly for each situation. Thinking like D&D subclasses where, yes, you're a Paladin but what TYPE of Paladin (and I'm ignoring spec here because again, you just change that whenever). Having said all of that, I don't think the Covenant system achieves that goal at all and I think moving the game in this type of direction requires reworking the holy trinity concept a bit that WoW stole from older MMOs and then honed like a laser into an unwieldy point that they now can't escape.
Decoupling covenants from its abilities make no sense. Zero sense. Its better not have covenants at all. Diversity is nice and if you're so cutting edge minded you should work harder for that. Its not a big deal to gear up 4 toons with different covenants.
Also the vendor/full choice isn't always good. For instance, corruption vendor allowed for some wonky and unintended stacking. It's not as good as it advertised by some youtubers.
Its not me (us). It Blizzards. The game is how it is. You play it or not. Stop pretending the game should tailor to your wishes.
If there's one thing I trust about Ion over anything else it's his petty ego.
Throwing his own words back at him has ALWAYS failed. I had hope until the second I saw #pulltheripcord. Blue post sealed the deal.
It's going to be dogshit until 9.3 when the original planned version is finally released.
I'm out. I'm done. Let me know when they send Ion upstate to the farm.
Can we cut the segment where preach complains about dumb comments, dont read them they are dumb.
So is this one
"Pull the ripcord"
The fuck does this even mean?
Like..huh?
Man, those blue eyes. Definitely a Kul Tiran DK.
shouldnt have to naturally grow your hair? preach is living through a long haired character
The covenants aren't the problem. RAIDS should NOT be so difficult that you have to be a specific spec/build to complete them. That's what heroic and mythic are for… a challenge. People have settled to be cookie cutters instead of saying fix this so the majority of players can do the content. Then if you want a challenge up the difficulty and be a cookie cutter there. The scale of difficulty is the real issue. Every class/spec should be viable enough to complete a raid etc. If people want to do it the easiest or should I say laziest way possible and crunch the numbers forcing people to play a certain way then that's a human problem not an issue with the game… and generally that's the case people are the issue….
The big problem was beta testers focused on what was the BEST possible answer to each question. Of it was A or B or C when the real answer should have been D, all the above are viable. That's what should have been tested and if D isn't the correct answer then blizzard should have been notified so they could make it to where all of the above are viable, maybe not the BEST choice but definitely viable.
God people are going so over the fucking moon with how powerful convenant abilities they are acting like one covenant boosts your damg by 50% and the others by 2% jesus chill the hell out you ultramegauber spergs. at most the weakest ability will be a 5% boost and the best a 10% boost a 5% gap. If such a small number will influence you to go a covenant you just COMPLETELY HATE then my god you need to work out some fucking issues WoW is not THAT COMPETITIVE and even if you think it is in your little head cannon "meta" bubble it can NEVER BE BALANCED EVER and I mean ever. Balancing WoW would require taking every single luck based thing out of the game no if ands or buts. No procs of any king, no windfury wep, no double sinister strike, no ANYTHING.
This is the same reason I have never seen Pokemon as competitive even tho tons of people do. Random misses, random status chances, random chance to crit, intentionally making awful pokemon, etc, etc. If you want to play a game THAT GOD DAMN HARDCORE and want it to be truly competitive and not "I no lifed harder for better gear to get an ADVANTAGE" then go play a god damn fighting game until you are ready to step on the competitive scene. Street fighter 5, Killer Instinct, Dragonball Fighterz, Guilty Gear Strive ( when it comes out ), Smash Ultimate all good games to play with TRUE COMPETITIVE SCENES because that's what fighting games are all about BEING COMPETITIVE. Everyone running around WoW going "hmm what's the competitive spec" "hmm what's the current meta" you guys are driving yourself crazy over a game THAT HAS NEVER BEEN COMPETITIVE. Sure it has fucking PvP but that's just a thing for flavor more to do in the game if you will Pokemon has the same damn shit even rated online and it's still a clusterfuck bad competitive game. CHOOSE A NEW GAME TO BE COMPETITIVE IN IF COMPETITION MEANS THAT MUCH TO YOU.
Random gem slots on gear? What happened to the words '' Just let loot be loot ''.
I absolutely despise that they connect lore with abilities. Granted, it makes sense, but now I am at a point where I have to either join a covenenat I don't care lore or looks wise to get a fun sounding (or rather broken) ability, or join a covenant I can see my character joining and get abilities that are worse at best and annoying to handle (Paladin blessings) at best.
whats the point of checking all the covenants if the raid leader will force us to play specific covenant? :))
Just too many variables, i dont see this going well.
I, like almost everyone else, can't wait to play my favorite covenant in shadowlands: whatever sims higher..
Permanent choices! Make people have consequences in their decisions! Back to the original idea of Covenants! Do it Blizz, do it! No Balls! :O
I've been thinking blizzard purposely puts bad stuff in the game for years now… having bad feeling things in the game will make the good things feel better in their minds, and then it also creates job security for them self by always having something to "fix" in the game.
1% meta slaves…..lmao and fyi if they add a pvp stat you will not voem in to pvp with mythic raid gear and pwan.
you arnt freaked out at all?….bull shit….lol.
PVP systems that feel arbitrary and punishing is never fun. I hope they don't screw it up again. There's been too many expansions since I felt like playing BGs and Open World PVP was fun and rewarding.
honestly, i dont like how easy it is to change talents. I think for example, once you ahve started an instance- you should not be able to change. Part of the challenge used to be – okay, how do I, as a MM hunter deal with this boss… and then find a way to do it. Now, its oh, just change spec…
The thumbnail with Ian killed me. Gold
Hey I believe you actually do need an active wow account to test ptr. Can anyone testify to what Preach said about not needing an active account?
The mob demands rage!
The original classic back in the day felt like a real big world roleplaying game. It was so immersive and everyone stood out. There weren't even dps meters. Any kind of build and what not had it's place.
Travelling around the map, finding someone with a key to gnomeregan, coming across people from the enemy faction while traveling with your party. (People couldn't just teleport alts to you in the middle of the way to razorfen so you had to Duke it out party vs party)
No detailed maps showing where everything is and how to get there.
It was an actual adventure. For its time.
As time went on. Players wanted to see more. More animations. More spells. Better graphics. Better gameplay. And with all the money blizzard made they never delivered. They only gave just enough to keep some people playing. Meanwhile more and more of the real players left while a different breed of players (those who come from moba, not rpg,) entered.
This new breed wanted balance. Equal stats. "If you can dash, I want to dash. If you can aoe, I want to aoe. If you can heal, I want to heal. If you can do 282874dps. I want to do 282874 dps.
Between half pleasing the ever dwindling wow player base. And failing at the impossible task of trying to perfectly balance a HUGE number in variables in spells and classes and playsttles (which is something you shouldn't even want). The people who loved this game growing up never got to see any of the changes they ever hopes for save some rare exceptions
People often make excuses for blizzard. For their time. The coding they have to work with
Listen. They made billions of you all. they could easily reinvest in the game to pay back to the community. And if they would, mark my words it could become the biggest game in the world
Much love. See you in shadowlands
There is a "ripcord", they can't pull it for release unless you want it delayed by a few months.
Their original plan was to release, and then re-work all of the expansion's systems along with the upcoming one to work with the new covenants instead.
They never said they can, or will do it for release. They might not do it ever if it works fine, which is blindly optimistic.
But they'll most definitely do it, after they give it a few months to basically remake the entire expansion's systems, current and future.
It was what they meant by "If we do it right now it will untangle the entire expansion".
I really hope that when they “mea culpa” in the future and say “we hear you now” that someone asks why they never listen… the cycle repeats.
They need to add a bloody pvp stat…
nice fucking window view
7:11 wonder why Preach is not interested in PvP.. oh wait I know
After we got the release date, it was actually really hard to see the ripcord pulled tbh. Making that kind of design change at this point would delay the launch for sure, because even at the moment people (some beta testers) are talking how the release is coming too soon. I was personally surprised this October release, I was waiting end of November or start of December. Perhaps Blizzard has managed to increase the development pace but I am a little bit concerned that something will be missing from release and added later. Will see.
Bellular: There is no ripcord.
Preach: The ripcord remains.
🤔
I've lost all faith in ion as a development lead. His obsession with these new shiny disposable systems each expac has basically made the game feel like a disjointed heap of mechanics that are barely tied to each other now.
covenant abilities are a huge mistake and they know it.
Shadow priests are a great example of Blizzard's implementing-broken-systems-despite-feedback cycle. They created their own problem (again) by forcing a new class fantasy on priests (you're VOID now and you LOVE it), and changing their playstyle to the insanity-void form mess (imo). With clear feedback from the majority of shadow priests about how it doesn't work, doesn't feel good, please bring back devouring plague, etc….they kept trying to 'tweak' it with slight changes and refusing to give up the broken system.
Then Shadowlands alpha hits, and they give shadow back devouring plague as an option to spend insanity on. And what happens?? People STOP USING voidform because devouring plague works better. So Blizzard finally listens and makes voidform an optional talent. Players are still allowed to choose between the two playstyles, so fans of voidform are not ignored…and this is good.
Players having the choice to play how they want to play is good. Which brings us back to the point that you have been making about covenants: the system allows one type of player (covenant fantasy) to play how they want to play, but restricts other players. My mage is going to be a necrolord forever because Skeletor, but the rest of the classes I play are hybrids. The best covenant for different hybrid specs are unlikely to always be the same in terms of power, but also aesthetically and thematically.
Part of me wants to have all my toons bisd out so when someone does group content with any of them and I'm outperforming them by a good bit they can be like why are you doing more damage then me when we're equal gear?
Then I can say because you have the wrong covenant you made the wrong choice 🙂 just like sew dislike for this sort of system which we should already not like but for some reason we're okay with it because it's an expansion feature?
backtrack pull the ripcord, backtrack listening to feedback too
Hi
hes not concerned if its fun to play, hes concerned if its fun to watch, dollar dollar bills ya'll
I have a strong feeling that this system was introduced to force us play many alts, and even more characters per class.
I already leveled and played almost all classes in Legion. But then they started introducing new races. And when I wanted to play them, I race changed some of my old, even deleted some lower level ones… But then they kept adding more and more. And I am at a point now that if they add more Allied races I'd want to play, I will have to create multiple characters per one class.
And looks like to me this new system is here to make people feel like it's not a waste to create 2 or 3 paladins. After all, now this expansion is alt friendly, right?
I assume this whole thing is happening merely to increase the time played. And thus subscription. The more paladins you have to keep up to date, the more money you pay.