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World of Warcraft Shadowlands has a deep dark secret, the main question here is, why do some souls go to the WoW Shadowlands while others find themselves going to the Shadowlands Maw. What exactly happened to Sylvanas in Shadowlands and Zovaal the Shadowlands jailer?
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Nobbel; Are there Irredeemable souls?: https://youtu.be/THh_dleE6nc
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How do we know Sylvanas skipped the Arbiter? In the Uther cinematic he wakes up in Bastion confused about where he is with the first he remembers being Arthas. Can it be that souls who pass through the Arbiter don't know about the Arbiter? They wake up after being assigned to one of the realms. What we read in Edge of Night is that she also 'wakes up' in an unknown place in a confused state. She could have passed the Arbiter without her knowing it, but being assigned to the maw by the Arbiter
Maybe, Devos take them like she took Arthas.
The poor Arbitor, looks like she lost her heart. Well, I hope she can wait until release, then she can have my now "useless" Heart of Azeroth.
Totally possible. Look at cera. Only wants to kill. Full of rage and hate!
I do believe in redeeming people no matter what their crimes but if you're looking for top evil acts… How about burning children alive? If that is not a bad enough act I wonder what is.
There's a gray item in BfA with the flavor text:
"At first it appears to be a simple dock worker's song, but it occurs to you the worker is Death, collecting souls while wishing for the end of its own existence."
I keep thinking about the label "Eternal ones", and connecting to this, it could be that The Jailor just wants to end this eternal cycle of Life and Death. Maybe he wants to be killed somehow, but it's not currently possible
What if its just that she died on a spike of old God blood?
Thanks for the vid man! I would love to watch the shill show but dont get time so really appreciate the vids dude. Keep up the good work.
It could also be suicide….in some religion,suicide send you directly to hell
Not sure if this was mentioned but biblically an unforgivable sin is suicide. so I just figured it was because she killed her self that sent her straight there 🤷🏻♂️
If, when she first died at Arthas hands, she hadn't been turned she would have not gone to the Maw directly. By the time she jumped off the Ice Crown Citadel she wasn't the same person. I'm not sure she has had the best intentions for the Forsaken by this time. Mind you, by the time she was turned and now, a number of millenia has passed, and she isn't so concerned about the Forsaken except by how it affects her. She knows she is undying and not decaying. She doesn't want to be alone at the end, so it is her intention to make people like her so she doesn't get lonely. So this may be why she is no longer redeemable. Garosh, at least, did what he did to improve the horde. He had the best intentions, but he did it in the wrong way (perhaps). Sylvanas isn't concerned about anyone at this time, but herself.
I think this has something to do with saronite
Please put a auto translate subtitles, i can understand without translate but its easier with subtitles.
We keep thinking of irredeemable as a moral term.
But think about the Shadowlands, built entirely for the purpose of keeping anima away from the Maw and Zovaal. What if the redeeming of a soul involves deconstructing the soul INTO anima.
Any soul that the Shadowlands could not bleed/drain/remove soul anima from would be a soul which could not be redeemed. So they would go to The Maw.
Is there interplay between Frostmourne, perhaps anima is drained to resurrect a Scourge/Forsaken and not everyone has anima to spare in them? I do not know.
But i believe when the Shadowlands talks of redeeming a soul, they mean like redeeming a coupon.. a token.. for anima and that this is their criteria.. and is why Arthas being delivered, anima and all, to Zovaal in the Maw was the beginning of his freedom, and also a part of Zovaal's plan.
haven't read other comments so sorry if this was posted already. but what if it is just something simple such as killing herself? maybe suicide sends you straight to the Maw. it would be similar to Christianity where if you commit suicide they say you just go straight to Hell…
Maybe because she's undead ?
train of thought choo choo! the difference between mograine and sylvanas is the DK status. Mograine as a DK was left with much more mind or soul(maybe thats where the power come from? maybe thats why the lich king needed a DK to free him somehow). Sylvanas was left as a mindless banshee, yet she broke her chains.Maybe everything that frostmourne raised as a mindless painful servent is just the jailors bitch and goes straight to "hell" no matter what. and she just went rouge, realised it by killing herself and now wants all her people truly be free…..so she took a bargain with death…..which justifies everything she did after that in her mind which is why she became….more irredeemable from an outside perspective….but if thats true, the jailor dammend her to damnation with frostmourne…great reason to stab him in the back in the end to get real vengeance
Your explanation of why Sylvanas went to the Maw contradicts itself. First you say that the Sylvanas that killed herself at Icecrown was not irredeemable, then you argue that she became irredeemable the moment she became a banshee. However, I think that the fact that Sylvanas ended her life with a suicide may have disqualified her from Maldraxxus, as that could have been seen as a cowardly act. Or maybe the saronite spikes that Sylvanas impaled herself on (remember, Yogg-Saron is also called a "death god") could have caused her to bypass the Arbiter and go straight to the Maw.
I think it’s a false vision planted by the jailer. Like you said she wasn’t that bad back then.
They removed demon form from warlock to give it to the demon hunters. 😉
Or the jailer intercepted her soul to recruit her the way voljin’s soul was intercepted to save him from the maw.
or she could have been taken by the jailer or valk to the maw. I think the sword may send you to the maw or the jailer somehow used whatever he had to send everyone to the maw including her
Accolonn, You're the fucking man !! Your theories are on point, right or not, who the fuck knows ?! but i love the all the speculation and ideas you brainstorm !! Great work man !
It might be allegorical. Blizzard loves mythology. It follows the catholic line of thinking that suicide is an irredeemable sin. Even if saved, it's straight to inferno, there is no paradise for self killers.
The easiest answer is always pushed on the side. The damned do not go to the Arbitor.
Why has nobody come up with the theory about bolvar having runes etched into him like the jailer. Or how we will be using a piece of the helm of damnation as like an anchor point in oribos. Surely he can use his power to locate it or see through it maybe. Also how bolvar says he could be controlled by the jailer.
Do you think she would have been content then, to be a pawn in Revendreth, or a tool in Maldraxus?
No.
Hence, the maw.
Garrosh is a different story, never enslaved body and mind, perfectly suitable for redemption. Though the denizens of Revendreth had other plans.
Its a very interesting concept that what was left of her after Frostmourne is irredeemable. As with Uther, I assumed the only thing saving Sylvanas, well as a vessel at least, was Elune.
Now though, I do think her soul should have been judged, again, like with Uther, I think she was intercepted before she could reach the Arbiter. I think Devos has a hand in this aswell. I also think that Arthas being in the maw shares knowledge with the Jailer of just how strong Sylvanas can be. You could say shes his greatest accomplishment. This makes it easier for the Jailer to recruit her and get a much more immediate response as she can press the issue on Azeroth.
On stream we've talked about interactions. Like Thrall/Jaina, Jaina/Garrosh, but not until now have I thought about Sylvanas/Arthas. She maybe be able to finally get her revenge and have soul be freed.
The jailor needs a new body and Sylvanis is leading souls to him to do so nit knowing she is a pawn in his game.
It has nothing to do with her actions rather what happened to her and her people.
My theory is when people are turned into the Undead they are bound to the Maw.
They are mindless when they come back because their soul power gets consumed by the Maw and they come back as empty shells.
What Sylvanas lost when she got turned was her freedom.
That's why she hated Arthas but after she met the jailer she did not have a choice anymore but to obey or she would be consumed like the rest of her people that were just mindless monsters.
I've seen lots SL cinematics. I saw skeletons of elves, human, dwarf, troll, orc, etc. Every skeleton EXCEPT tortallans. Do turtle not make it to the SL? Just curious.
the wrathgate thing was just a slipup by afrasiabi.
Personally I think it was because her soul was previously "tainted" by Frostmourne. Unlike Uther who died by having his soul ripped in half, her entire soul was ripped out by Frostmourne then shoved back out. I don't think it has anything to be with her having done something wrong, so much as already having a stain of the Maw on her soul.
My theory is every soul gets judged once. Sylvanas was dead before, was ripped back to (undead) life, still her soul got marked as "judged before". Next time the arbiter chooses to merge her soul with whatever came before, can't find it, so it get's to the maw.
What if Yoggs blood had something with sylvanas bypassing the arbiter. I mean they used it to create Ice crown it must have some link to torgast too
Irredeemable doesn’t. Necessarily mean evil. It could also mean that souls that are so set in their ways that they cannot be broken to follow one of the covenants. Maybe the maw is for the souls that cannot be swayed to follow the covenants. I know some people may point at Uther and saying that he can’t be swayed either. And I can’t really defend it but what if irredeemable in their eyes are souls that the powers in play can’t use to strengthen their respective covenants.
What if being impaled by saronite caused her to go straight to the maw? Like the shadowlands felt the old god essence in the solidified blood in Sylvanas and thought she was an old god or something? Or the Jailor or somebody nabbed her soul before she could get to the arbiter that has yet to be revealed.